Heyho, recently someone asked for the silliest reasons, but as someone who has suggested linux to many people, I often encounter people having valid reasons for staying with Windows or switching back.
The most boring but valid one is “I have to use Windows for work. It is a requirement (of some software I have to use)”. But there are also other answers that fit. My sister for example tried Linux, but while installing software constantly encountered issues that I helped her solve and eventually switched back because she felt like she had less control than over windows. While I am aware that this is fundamentally wrong, it is valid that some amateur users do not want to invest enough time to get over the initial hurdles of relearning how to install software.
What are the best reasons people have given you for not wanting to try Linux?
This is sort of a compilation of things I have heard:
Too many distros to choose from and I tried a couple of the ones that were supposed to be good for new users, but had issues that I found too annoying to ignore. And when I tried to get help online, I got rude responses from Linux users who just seemed to assume that I was a young guy that ought to learn how to code and fix my own problems (I am not young and I will never be a coder) or accused me of wanting to be “spoon fed” the answer (yes I do, and exactly what is wrong with that? When I ask a question in an Apple-related forum people there have no problem just giving me an answer if they have one!). So I turned to AI for answers so that I didn’t get all that attitude, and AI is great when it gives you correct answers but very often it just made shit up, and it’s hard to tell if it’s giving you a correct answer or hallucinating. And even an AI doesn’t know everything, not yet anyway.
I live in a rural area and there are no local sources of help that I’m aware of, and definitely no Linux user groups if those are even still a thing now, but even if there are, if they were using a different distribution than whatever I am trying to run they probably couldn’t help much.
Oh, and I absolutely hate typing stuff at a command prompt, I may do it occasionally to fix some weird issue (assuming someone else tells me what to type) but all the normal stuff should be doable using a GUI app. My Macintosh hardly ever asks me to type anything at the command line and that is how I like it! I am a computer USER, not a programmer, not a coder, not someone who wants to spend a great deal of time “learning” a new operating system. I want to be able to turn the computer on, read my email, browse the web, watch YouTube videos, type and print the occasional letter, save and view/play my photos and music, etc and not have the operating system get in my way, or force me to try to learn how it works internally.
And the final reason is that only Linux users still seem to think that reading a bunch of documentation is a prerequisite to using a computer, I have yet to see one good video that explains to someone that has never used Linux before how to use it (an “explain like I’m 5 - or 10 - and this is my first ever experience with a desktop computer that happens to be running Linux” type video). It is wonderful that so much random documentation exist but hardly anyone is going to just start reading it as if it were an instruction manual on how to build a garden shed, and even if they tried, anyone that doesn’t have a photographic memory will quickly forget everything they’ve read because so much of it makes no sense at all to anyone who is not already very experienced with Linux. Nor will they remember all the options associated with various Linux commands that are typically shown in such documentation.
Like I said, kind of a compilation of things I have read or heard, and I didn’t even get into the gaming stuff because I’m not personally into that and therefore don’t really understand the issues there.
The same reason everybody gives when dealing with pretty much anything: “I don’t want to learn something new”.
They rely on AutoHotkey.
It’s true, Linux doesn’t have anything close to AHK.
“The file system layout is dumb. What the fuck is /etc? Also I hate using terminal”
But… what actually is etc, opt, var, dev, bin, usr, local?
especially coming from windows…
there is no “Getting started” guide from the OS, you got to read a book or something to learn this…
during my early day i thought:
- etc = etcetra? I put random my own stuff here?
- opt = options? Do i put my configuration here?
- dev = develop? Is this where debugging symbol or devtool live?
- local = this must be where my local profile is located?
- usr = user? Or is this where my local profile is located?
- var = huh?
- lib = library? huh why?
- media = my media folder where i put my images and video?
lol
Counterpoint
Does your average windows user know what any of Windows top level folders mean?
Some might think they do. But then very few programs respect the Windows standards, so…
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Filesystem_Hierarchy_Standard
Also:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unix_filesystem
Has a breakdown of what each has referred to, historically
I’ve been using Linux for a long time and I don’t know any of this really.
Basically, home directory is for everything, unless some instructions say some other path.
My school requires the installation of office apps like Microsoft access. I can’t get Microsoft office apps to run with wine.
I also can’t get games from Ubisoft connect to run with wine. I usually try lutris but the games always crash. So I have a virtual windows machine for school work and I have to play all of my games on steam.
Sounds like I don’t know how to use wine or wine hates me
I mostly run Linux though.
I’ve only tried Trackmania, but was able to get it to work with Proton. I remember having one or two slight issues at first, dealing with Ubisoft connect, but I got it running pretty easily.
Don’t play games with wine, use Proton
I did try proton but it was the same results. I don’t know why my Ubisoft connect games won’t work, somethings missing
Adobe software, autoCAD, and anticheat are the top 3 reasons I usually hear. While there are alternatives for the first two, people who need these specific tools professionally don’t really have the choice.
Anticheat for gaming is a big one too. Personally I didn’t even consider switching until I finally quit Destiny 2 for good. If the main game someone plays just doesn’t work, they’re not gonna switch.
Do you work with CAD programs and if so, do you know a full feature alternative? I grew up with Linux because my father had unix at work before CAD program makers moved to windows and nowadays he has windows because that is where his CAD programs work. He is in retirement already, but very much a creature of habit. So while he has time to learn something new, radically different controls or such wouldn’t work out.
Depends what he’s looking for. I think Onshape (browser based CAD) has a free version. Your data is public though unless you go with a paid version.
If he wants a free Linux CAD there is FreeCAD and a few others.
If he is attending a university, as some retirees do to audit courses or enrich life, then Siemens NX (what GM, Stellantis, SpaceX, etc use) have an academic license for around $100 a year. It is now Windows only based, unless you run Linux headless version, but if you use any version NX12 or below there is a GUI LInux version that runs on REL or SUSE (or openSUSE since it shares SUSE binaries)
Are any of those comparable in power to things like AutoCAD?
FreeCAD is a step below the AutoCAD suite. On shape is comparable for mechanical design. Siemens NX is top tier only matched in high end functions by CATIA. NX and CATIA dominate in Automotive, and Aerospace.
Thank you for the detailed answer. Maybe there is a way to find NX like you said, will certainly let him know.
It is very expensive, so ideally join a uni or school program that has acedemic licenses.
I use commercial CAD. CATIA for car bodies. There is no FOSS alternative that comes close for my work. But the light at the end of the tunnel is, many CAD systems, including CATIA, are going web based. So users just need a browser on any OS. And the back end can be what it wants.
My father worked in machine development, I believe AutoCAD was actually one of the programs they used. I am sceptical when it comes to browser based versions utilising the full power of the system, interesting development for sure though.
Yes I have no interest in having a browser in the way. But 2 things. Firstly CATIA in a browser is just the same CATIA running on a remote PC somewhere. It’s the same program. And secondly, as longvas the UI looks and works the same, with no delays, then it’ll be fine. Sure you can’t use it when your wifi or Internet is down or slow, or the provider has power or Internet issues. And your customer is not a military or super secrecy case. But its clearly expecting to find a market.
I mean the bigwigs often have some kind of licensing that needs internet access if some kind anyway. So no internet is often an issue, even with the program on the pc itself.
“Nobody uses it so nobody can help me”
Bitch I’m standing right in front of you, also you can pay people or get free support on the internet. Linux users are way more helpful than the average Windows user…
Average Windows advice for basically every “Please help!” posts: “Just run DISM/SFC” marked as “solved”
I work on Windows computers for people, and do run both commands as just general flow. But I was so fucking excited recently to finally run into an issue that those commands actually fixed something (or at least a couple of the noticeable issues). Was so shocked that I had to tell all my direct co-workers.
But basically all other times I have ran them for real problems, I can’t remember any instance where they worked. For all the videos or guides with titles like “How to fix all Windows PCs”, you would think that they are the only solution.
The only frustrating thing with Linux communities/guides I tend to run into (especially when I had zero experience), are steps that get left out. Not out of malice, but because users that are much more experienced leave out things that are assumed to be already understood. Of course I don’t have a specific example off-hand since I already have some understanding at this point. Which kind of shows how easy it is to take certain things as “obvious.” Outside of that, the answers/guides do normally be good and friendly.
Which kind of shows how easy it is to take certain things as “obvious.”
I’m a new convert to Linux. I played around with it a bit probably about 15 years ago, but never did much seriously with it. Finally bit the bullet about a week ago between the windows 10 EOL and deciding that Linux gaming is finally in a place I can live with.
I’m a reasonable tech-literate person, I’m no sys admin but I’m the family “guy who’s good with computers” I did a few semesters as a computer science student and was reasonably good at it before deciding to go in a different direction.
And while things are working just fine for most of my general computing needs, I feel like I’m in a bit of a weird place right now, kind of like I’m back to being a kid with my family’s first Compaq in the 90s. I can play games and do my homework and make my computer do some cool things, but I know there’s more cool stuff I can make it do but I don’t know how yet.
I have about 30 years of know-how and tips and tricks built up on how to make windows bend to my will, but I don’t have that for Linux yet, and it’s not exactly a great feeling.
And I feel like there’s sort of a gap in the Linux community to help the slightly-above-average-computer-person Linux-convert like me to build up to where they were as a windows user.
Like there’s a wealth of knowledge on choosing a distro and installing it, alternatives to common windows programs, etc.
And then a big gap
And then people who have a whole home computer lab, self-hosting everything, doing serious programming as a hobby, etc.
And in the middle are a bunch of forum posts where someone asks a question, and some kind of computer sage emerges from the ether, tells you to transcribe a magic spell into your terminal, and all your problems will be solved, then vanishes in a puff of smoke.
And don’t get me wrong, I’m glad those magical Linux wizards exist to fix my problems. But I have almost no idea what the hell what the magical commands they told me to run are actually doing.
And I’m slowly piecing some of it together, googling things as I go, and that’s a fine way to learn things, but it is slow and I wish there was a better way to power through learning some of this stuff without needing to go take a whole actual course on it. I think my ideal would be sort of a Duolingo-type app for terminal commands.
Also at the lower end of the spectrum, I feel like maybe there’s a need for sort of a basic tutorial program for the kind of people who are not computer people to learn the absolute basics. I feel like back in the 90s I encountered a few introduction-to-windows sort of programs that would walk you through “this is your start menu,” “here’s what click/double-check/right click/etc” means," “here’s how you turn your computer off” kind of stuff.
And while that kind of thing is almost insultingly basic for anyone who’s going to install Linux for themselves, I think that kind of hand-holding might be needed for some other people we might try to convert.
Also don’t get me wrong, I like doing stuff in the terminal and don’t want it to go anywhere, when I know what I’m doing it is really efficient, but that shit is straight-up intimidating for a lot of average and below-average computer people, not to mention how truly abysmal a lot of their typing skills are. I feel like a little less emphasis on the terminal and building out some more control panel -like GUI menus would go a long way to getting people to switch.
Maybe these sorts of resources exist and I haven’t found them yet. If they do please point me towards them. If they actually don’t exist, maybe one of those wise Linux sages will see this and take up the task of building it.
Also at the lower end of the spectrum, I feel like maybe there’s a need for sort of a basic tutorial program for the kind of people who are not computer people to learn the absolute basics. I feel like back in the 90s I encountered a few introduction-to-windows sort of programs that would walk you through “this is your start menu,” “here’s what click/double-check/right click/etc” means," “here’s how you turn your computer off” kind of stuff.
I actually agree completely with that. I still remember the “how to use your Mac” intro floppy disks that my uncle still had mixed in with other program disks when I got his old Macintosh SE (dual floppy and no hard drive). It started with stuff like little “games” for how to use the mouse, Trash Bin, and other super basic things for GUI (since the concept was new at that time). My jump into Windows was easier because of that. Though the jump to Windows was its own issue since the family PC we got second-hand was still on 3.11 in 1998 and I was having to use 95 for a keyboarding class in middle school. But it was kind of interesting to have experienced (though not so much at the time as I couldn’t just do things like my friends would talk about on their 95/98 PCs). But even 95 did put effort into a tutorial that was helpful.
Windows these days doesn’t really have a tutorial for things (though Windows 8 did have a pretty okay one). Everything on 10 and 11 just feels like dark patterns in tricking you into shit Microsoft wants, and not a “how to” for even what is going on with the Start Menu. Just get an update and shit is just completely different (mostly with 11’s new jarring layout change).
And I’m slowly piecing some of it together, googling things as I go, and that’s a fine way to learn things, but it is slow and I wish there was a better way to power through learning some of this stuff without needing to go take a whole actual course on it. I think my ideal would be sort of a Duolingo-type app for terminal commands.
I am kind of shocked there isn’t already something like that. Even a lot of web forums these days have a “getting you started” tutorial that walks you through making dummy replies to messages from the bot. And create a dummy post that will be only created virtually while working with the bot. It would be great if the distros that try to be the easiest for new users to have a “introduction to terminal” that can safely show the most likely needed stuff. Like the normal stuff like ls, cp, copy, move, makedir, etc. Along with updating and installing stuff. There are lots of easy search results for these things, but a lot of people learn better hands-on (and especially if they know they won’t be able to just break shit if done wrong).
This is a hardware example (but still applies to the hands-on learning). I personally hate it when I am forced to learn how to fix stuff like iPhone hardware only on actual peoples’ devices. As it makes the pressure so much worse, and know that I might lead to the person not having their phone even longer with so much daily life needing them all the time. Apple does have step-by-step guides and video examples. But actually going through the motions is very different than the “perfect” stuff shown that make it seem easier.
Same can be with the difference in like driving a car in a sim and the class part vs how physical stuff like g-forces and actually feeling a hydroplane. You learn important things in the sim and in the class part of getting your learners permit, but then get a chance to drive with a teacher.
It seems that PC use and basic understanding has regressed dramatically over the past decade due to smart phones/tablets. So the starting point for a shocking amount of users is not good even for Windows (all the new PC gamers coming from only knowing consoles are badly needing to understand how to keep an eye on their drives filling up and to actually use the second drives). So it would be beyond great for Linux adoption efforts to focus on having hands-on “games” that range from basically treating it like the user is back in the early 90s (or the 80s for Apple’s first jump to having a GUI), and for folks that are already aware of the stuff that a complete new to computers folks don’t know.
As far as terminal tutorials, so far the best I’ve found is LabEx, but I feel like it’s lacking in a lot of ways.
First of all it definitely feels designed to push you towards paying for a subscription. And while their pricing honestly isn’t too terrible, it’s more than I want to spend on this. Nothing against companies and people being paid for making a product but it feels a little against the FOSS spirit to me.
Second I’ve mostly been trying to use it on my phone and that experience is just kind of shitty. Personally I kind of want to learn in short bursts here and there throughout the day when I have downtime at work or whatever. If I have time to sit down in front of my computer it’s probably because I want to be doing something fairly specific with it and it’s probably not to just practice my terminal use, so a better phone experience would be great.
And finally, it just seems a bit over-engineered, at least for what I want to use it for. It seems like it’s spinning up a whole Linux VM with a desktop environment and such for me to interact with through my browser just for me to type stuff into a terminal and read their tutorial. It does have other courses and maybe all of that is more useful there, but it seems like a bit much for me.
I will check it out, even if they push the subscription it still may be good to know about. Not like it comes up often, but some of my co-workers that are in school for CS might find it useful for extra practice.
Currently I have a Pi that I really only use for messing with Linux stuff and some of the purpose built alt-OSes (like media center stuff). So I have a safe environment that doesn’t matter if I brick the OS. Which might be a good option for lots of folks (even though it still lacks the guided tutorials that we have been talking about). Would be great if the Pi folks could create something on there for active learning Terminal.
