Couple who married in Germany had their right to a ‘normal family life’ impeded, court of justice finds
how far we´ve come. 40 years ago poland was the most progressive country in europe regarding homosexuality because unlike everyone else they never criminalized it. homosexual people were not harassed by the state and gay bars were a thing even in 70´s socialist poland.
it really depends on the generation. i have yet to meet a homophobic pole that was born in the post-war period, they generally have a quite egalitarian stance on it with (expected) slight prejudice but no outright hate.
late baby boomers and gen x-ers though… OH BOY. most of these fucks need reeducation by a proper beating or something. i have yet to meet a gen x-er pole that´s not a complete piece of shit regarding their views on homosexuality and women.
40 years ago poland was the most progressive country in europe regarding homosexuality because unlike everyone else they never criminalized it.
Damn, that’s wild. What was Poland like 40 years ago?
flips open history book
Omg, you’re a fucking tankie! TANKIE! TANKIE! Mods, get this guy out of here!!!
socialist poland was a shitshow towards the end :3
A Covert Action: Reagan, the CIA, and the Cold War Struggle in Poland
Shrug
The Eastern Block got the same fuzzy treatment from NATO that countries like Afghanistan and Columbia and Iran enjoyed.
Americans love a color revolution when your government aligns with Russia or China. But they have zero tolerance for dissent once their friends are in charge.
Single data counterpoint: I have met genx poles who are much more positive and I’d call friends.
i sure believe there’s plenty. i’m just talking from my experience
The far right movement spearheaded by Victor Orban has spread. The world of far right go to Hungary for their meetings.
orban may be a factor in this, but the rampant homophobia in poland has been around since before the ussr fell
I’m so tired of right wingers in Poland. They will always repeat the same stupid argument that because in our language word “rodzina” (family) contains the core “rodzić” (to give birth), and therefore it’s an institution for reproduction, so gay couples are not families. Words ethology makes more sense than anything else right
Etymology, slogans, rhymes or catchy acronyms give our brains the illusion of hearing something that makes sense. Repeating them a million times drills them in your neural pathways. Plus they are easy to scream loud enough to drown any attempt at intelligent conversation.
That’s right-hand populist communication in a nutshell.
So people who can’t reproduce shouldn’t be able to get married either, hysterecomies and vasectomies invalidate your marriage and preclude future marriage. Women have to get a divorce and can’t remarry once they’ve gone through menopause. In fact, men can’t give birth at all, so only women should be able to get married. Makes sense to me!
Honestly I don’t know why the state is still in the business of giving out marriages. Who gives a shit what other people want to call marriage. The state should not even have the authority to perform marriages at all. It should be left as a cultural or religious institution. It has no right to legislate what is and is not marriage. The only thing that should be available is civil unions, being defined as a financial and legal union of two or more consenting adults.
That way, anyone can “get married” at their local church, at a secular ceremony, or piss-drunk in a pub by a barmaid. It would be legally vacuous and has only the meaning that the parties ascribe to it, or that is given to it by the religious authority they choose to follow. But if they want to be legally joined together then they would go register a civil union at the local registrar’s office.
If you’re a bigot and don’t consider two men in civil union to be married, cool, whatever, the law should not care about your opinion. You can privately think “those two are not married” all day, and be right in your mind. The only people whose opinions matter are those who want to call themselves married. There is no institution of “marriage” to defend, because you’ve already won. You can consider marriage to be anything you want and be right. Now you can leave other people alone.
completely agree. the fact that this hasn’t been the widely adopted solution show that ppl are either really stupid or not actually interested in solving the problem.
The state cares insofar as your partner gets certain rights and will be included as family in many things.
For instance, deciding for you in medical cases, being informed if something happens, getting money from your life insurance whatever.
No marriage would mean the two are not connected at all in the states eye and thus not family.
You could say, ok lets just enable putting that into some record without marriage, but the state wants to safeguard itself as you can get things like citizenship and such
And in most states that is what you define as civil unions (there is no marriage as such often).
I don’t think this is at all a valid counter-argument as all of these powers can equally be given to civil unions, if they aren’t already. In my eyes, if you propose to someone and “get married” and want to give your spouse the legal powers associated with what was previously marriage, you would register a civil union.
No civil marriage doesn’t mean that people can’t connect themselves legally; it just means that you have to register a civil union to do so. All of the points you raise are easily defeated by just defining civil unions to replace marriage in all respects. The system is already very close to how I describe. You can “get married” at a church or wherever else and in most countries that does not mean anything until you have registered it with a local registrar. I’m just saying that the thing that happens in a church is “marriage”, and the thing that happens with the legal paperwork at the registrar’s office is called “civil union” regardless of the genders or sexualities of the parties involved.
Sorry, I think we are talking of the same thing. In Germany that is the way it is. Civil union and marriage is equivalent, you dont have to get married at a church, the only important thing is to go to the state for a few minutes and tell them basically.
I thought that the problem was that the state still has to accept things such as (whatever you call it lets say) unions of things such as same sex partner and so.
Problem is the civil union is mostly historically influenced often (tends to be less these days)
And Hungary and Slovakia don’t forget!
I am from Slovakia. This will be such an ammunition for the current fascist government. I can already see all the press conferences that pig will appear in. There was a quiet talk about leaving EU for a while. Then they made a law where slovak law is above EU law. And now this. My fear is that if there will be a referendum about leaving EU, more than 50% will be for it. I bought a house five years ago and I was slowly repairing it. I moved in just this year. If not for that, I would already be gone from this country.
I’m sorry 😔 I have two friends from Slovakia and they are really worried too. They don’t live there anymore but they left before Fico.
But yes good point this could cause them leaving the EU. I doubt that they will push for that though. Because of subsidies. Same reason why Hungary doesn’t consider leaving.
Imagine hating other people loving each other enough to prefer a dictatorship…
Leaving the country is helping the pigs.
They want you to leave.
They also pleasure themselves through your abuse while still reaping the benefits of your economic activity. They’re basically good either way whereas you’re better off without them if you can manage it, the same dynamics as an abusive couple
There are also tons like Italy, Czech republic, Croatia that have civil unions, but I don’t know if they respect foreign marriage.
Really? Wow I didn’t realise there were still countries without gay marriage in Europe. Well except the Vatican maybe 😂 but yeah if they respect them from other countries no idea
Polacks gonna polack.
No clue why you’re being downvoted. I grew up in Eastern Europe. It’s a shithole of misogyny and pseudo-masculinity, like an infection by proximity with Russia and Turkey.
They’re getting downvoted because they made an obviously bigoted statement. But, y’know, bigots gonna bigot.
Found the pole
I mean, there might be some in there, but my ancestors were overwhelmingly German. You on the other hand, I can tell, are 100% a douchebag. What a rich heritage!
Sorry about your overwhelmingly Nazi heritage, hope it gets better.
They’re bigoted against white fascists. That’s a new one.
No, you’re bigoted against Polish people, and it’s not new at all.
Yes, I’m bigoted against my own people and citizens of Fascistland. What a fucking moron.
Poland grew up a lot in recent years though. Every post Soviet country had a rough journey rebuilding their entire country and culture tho Poland got really captured by Catholic grfit unfortunately.
It massive depends where in Poland. Some parts of Poland are super progressive, others regressive. It’s the nature of the beast.
what parts are super progressive? asking cuz i have family in poland and would definitely love to learn more about the more progressive areas
Yep, it’s like that all over the world, anyone saying “fuck everyone from this particular country” is simply a bigot.
Yeah as a polish person I got what they meant but I found it offensive
Looks into Poland:
deeply racist and patriarchal country, with its roots deeply tied to Catholicism
Average lemmitor: “IT’S ALL THE FUCKING RUZZIANS AND TURKS!!!”
I’d like to echo what others have said about Poland not being that bad.
Southeastern Europe is a lot worse. They were under occupation by the Turks for 500 years, then by Russia for half a century. As someone raised in that region, I would have to think long and hard to come up with anything positive to say about Russian or Turkish influence.
So according to that graph you linked, Harris would have won everywhere except the bottom 8 countries, one of which is Russia and some have elected Russia friendly governments. Also out of those 7 countries, Slovenia, Slovakia and Hungary were not under Russian or Turkish influence. They were under Austrian Habsburg influence. Which only leaves Serbia, Bulgaria, Georgia and Moldova(the last two which have active Russian troops occupying their territory).
You also assume that their dislike of Harris is due to misogyny when it could be due to her policies. Even so, she would have won the election with over 50% of votes in literally 75% of European countries, some of which were under Turkish or Russian occupation or influence(Romania, Kosovo, Poland, Lithuania, Estonia, Latvia, Greece and Croatia). Shit, some of these countries don’t even vote their own head of goverment with over 50% and have to hold runoff elections most of the time. Harris getting over 50% of votes means she did better than their own homegrown politicians (though I assume the result are this way because of the binary choice presented, as most European elections have a plurality of candidates and the vote is split amongst them).
Also out of those 7 countries, Slovenia, Slovakia and Hungary were not under Russian or Turkish influence.
Where did you get that from?
As a Hungarian, I can easily tell you that that’s not the case. Hungary was under Turkish rule for more than 100 years between 1526-1699. It has left deep marks on both our language and culture (sometimes good ones, like having a lot of Turkish bathhouses, but mostly just set us back quite some years).
As for Russia, Hungary was a Soviet puppet state between 1944-1989. We have a national holiday on October 23 that is a remembrance day for a failed revolution against the Soviet Union, that was shot down in a bloodbath. The current ruling party started as one of the anti-Russian parties, Orbán (our current president) literally held a speech where he was chanting “Ruszkik haza!” (“Russians go home!”)… It’s unfortunate that he has completely flipped since then and is now welcoming Russian influence back.
I can only assume something similar for our neighbours, but I’m happy to look it up for you.
EDIT: Also, before anyone says it, I’m not contesting that the countries in the list were under Austrian (or Austro-Hungarian) rule too. The lines are messy with whose side of the story you’re reading, but as for Hungary the easy way to summarise it from the Turkish invasion is:
- Turkish rule
- Gets liberated by the Habsburgs, leading to
- Austrian rule
- Revolution, leading to getting some representation (sadly, just Hungary, not the other countries in the empire), leading to
- Austria-Hungary, leading to
- WW1
- Loads of failed governments, the great depression hits hard, leading to
- WW2, leading to
- Soviet occupation, leading to
- Failed revolutions
- Soviet Union falls, leading to
- Independent Hungarian republic, heavy anti-Russian sentiment, leading to
- Hungary tries to warm up to western powers, leading to
- Hungary joins the EU
- And now, with corruption and foreign influence going strong worldwide, Russian influence is rising again
The guy I was answering to claimed that the countries were under Turkish or Russian control for more than half a century. Which is not true. Hungary was under Turkish control for around 100 years but you’re not going to tell me that Turkish influence from the 17th century has such a major effect on today’s Hungary.
And while Hungary was under Soviet control it was not really a peaceful and compliant control as they had multiple resistances and popular uprising against them, starting with the 1956 revolution which the Soviets had to put down by killing thousands of Hungarians.
That’s true. I think the only political (if we can call it that) heritage of the Turkish occupation is that the Turkish generally think of Hungarians as friends, probably since it’s a celebrated part of their history.
As for the Soviet era, I’m confident it still has its effects. Of course, it didn’t help economically, but also, I think that’s where our rampant corruption stems from (in most Soviet countries corruption was the norm, and I think it became normalised somewhat, as in “oh yeah, they are corrupt, but that’s nothing compared to what we had before!”).
I think our dependance on Russian gas also started back then (but I don’t have the receipts for that).
Also, there are plenty of people who look at the Soviet era through rose-tinted glasses and romanticise the past. I have relatives that have the attitude of “yes, but if you didn’t rebel, you could have a stable job and live an honest life; nowadays you have to worry about so much”, which doesn’t make sense.
Proximity to Russia is strongly correlated with fascist politics. Hence Trump’s appeal. That’s not a coincidence.
As someone raised in that region, I would have to think long and hard to come up with anything positive to say about Russian or Turkish influence
Yeah, so you’re just openly racist, gotcha!
If by “Russian occupation” you mean “belonging to the communist geopolitical block of Eastern Europe”, then I ask, what good things can you come up with about your newfound American occupation?
They’re the same race as me. Their cultures are fascistic and oppressive and I’d rather die than go back. Not that American culture is that much better.
The Catholic church has a very strong grip on Polish culture (and often government), which is what drives a lot of things like this
I’m familiar, I’ve been around polacks my whole life. The American branch is quite similar to their European counterparts.
