Video shows Gen Xu Qinxian explaining why he refused to deploy troops to crush 1989 student-led demonstrations
Rare footage of a People’s Liberation Army (PLA) general who defied orders to lead his troops into Tiananmen Square and crush the 1989 student protesters has been leaked online, offering a highly unusual glimpse into the upper echelons of the military at one of the most fraught moments in modern Chinese history.
General Xu Qinxian’s refusal to take his troops from the PLA’s prestigious 38th Group Army, a unit based on the outskirts of Beijing, into the capital has been the stuff of Tiananmen lore for decades.
The six-hour video recording of Gen Xu’s court martial hearing the next year sheds light on the rare act of defiance. In the video, Xu said he refused because he did not want to become “a sinner in history”.
Great, now reveal all epstein files without black outs.
General Xu was 100% correct. The entire CCP and high ranking PLA officers should have thrown into a courtroom and sent to prison for murder.
Don’t worry, I’ve been told by users that it didn’t happen, and that if it did, it wasn’t what we saw, and it wasn’t that bad, and that, if it was, they deserved it.
It’s all AI anyway. If you saw tank man before, you are being lied to by western propaganda.
Ai in 1989 was so advanced lol
Like, duh? It’s all laid out in Neuromancer. 🤷♂️
ICE was black back then, too.
Ice like in cyberpunk or…?
Imagine if 2020 had AI becoming this popular.
Pretty sure there would be conspiracy theories that accuse the George Floyd’s murder video of being “AI”
The future is so cooked.
Notice how you cannot state what you saw because in reality the entire thing was recorded by international media and it literally did not happen on video.
“It did not happen” thanks for demonstrating my point
You registered on the wrong lemmy instance
Thats my take on them as well.
Time to change some of my challenge responses on some of my equipment to include him as the greatest chinese citizen. I have the standard remember Tiananmen Square response. Always fun to let them port scan and attempt to brute force with those responses.
Modern journalism headline
For anyone else that is interested in what came of him:
Xu was expelled from the CCP and sentenced to five years in prison. He lived the rest of his life exiled from Beijing and died in 2021 at the age of 85.
A much happier ending than I expected.
If I’m understanding correctly he was a general. He was powerful enough to merely be court martialed. I doubt the same mercy extended very often to individual soldiers who refused orders.
In Qing Dynasty, the entire family and close relatives would’ve gotten publicly executed.
No kidding. If this happened in North Korea the trial would have lasted 15 minutes and the execution would have been a public spectacle.
Can’t make a public spectacle of something that “never happened”.
Good man. Too bad China kills good people. It’s a horrible empire.
It seems like all empires are horrible to me. Humans suck, especially when they have power
I agree, that’s why all empires must die
Yeah.
There’s lots of instances throughout history that prove that humans with power suck.
I like to think that it’s because nice people aren’t the type to accumulate power rather than power corrupts nice people who do get power.
Power corrupts insecure people
I think we make the mistake of letting people govern groups of people that they are too distant from to care about. Leaders are essential, but they have to care about the people they lead. I dont think its actually possible to care about people a thousand miles away the same way as the people in your community. I think this is why the largest countries that are controlled by the fewest people have the most problems. Its a delegation issue essentially.
Did they kill him?
He went to prison for 5 years and then lived into his 80s.
With a clear continence.
They killed him in the slowest way possible 😔
We put him in the time machine but it only goes forwards at normal speed!
I build a time machine that allows you to travel into the future at 60 seconds per minute.
A good point. Though I was surprised to read this particular dissident only got 5 years in prison and exile from Beijing.
Seems like standard procedure to higher ups in China. They did something similar to Xi Jinping‘s father when he spoke out against a violent solution for the protests. Too bad Xi learned all the wrong lesson‘s from his dad‘s political exile.
Literally not an empire. Don’t get your terms mixed!
Then what do you call what they’re doing in Africa?
And how they got most of their current territory, like Tibet?
Same thing the US does, no? Except China is more efficient
You won’t see me defend the US’s imperial actions
Qinxian made a decision that saved countless lives, much like Arkhipov in the 60s.
If you’re seeing anti China stories about literally pre Bush times - asks yourself: why?
This is “World News?”. Wtf? No, this is historical shit that belongs in a fucking museum. (Thank you Indiana).
Why are people commenting on China like the last 30+ years hasn’t happened? Does it make us feel good when they are absolutely dunking on us as our incompetent form of governance sends us spiraling to another financial crisis? Seriously. How the fuck is this world news?!
Like, would we be criticizing Germany today if some new photos of the concentration camps were found?
I’m sorry. The fact that we let this shit get posted in “world news” is just pandering to the right wings “war with China” narrative that is completely unjustifiable. Reddit levels of garbage mods.
People get excited when new documents are re-discovered about Japanese Americans in interment camps during WW2, or the Pope apologizing for the church killing indegeonous people in Canada. You can suffer through knowing there was at least one good person in the PLA ~30 years ago.
If you can’t acknowledge the CCP’s ongoing march to retake Taiwan by any means, I would ask if you even read any news. I don’t understand how you think it is a left or right issue, at least in the US, former President Obama was who started the American pivot to the pacific foreign policy in the ancient history of the year 2011.
How do you feel this changes the narrative of the Tiananmen Massacre? I know you guys are fond of saying the massacre never happened which is actually somewhat accurate. This makes it sound like it was going to happen, but was prevented by this general’s action.
Like, would we be criticizing Germany today if some new photos of the concentration camps were found?
This isn’t criticism. The new release would be news. Go away tankie.
Every year before the Christmas holidays, Romanian TV channels show many images, videos and testimonies from the Romanian revolution, where the military fired into, and killed many civilians. We’re not afraid to grapple with our history, even 36 years later.
Sure. But this is World News. And it’s constantly filled with “remember when China was a shit hole and America was a superpower?!”.
Do you think if new footage of the Romanian revolution was found it would be on the top of a World News sub? No. Because the West isn’t trying to manufacture consent for a war with Romania.
That’s my point. It’s not that the footage isn’t meaningful. It’s WHAT the footage is being used for by it being covered by western media and the response (see the comments here) that it instills.
Bro no one cares about Romania because we’re not worthy of anyone’s attention, genuinely, we’re like a tiny speck of dust in the global economy or geopolitics, don’t give me this “manufacture consent” talk.
I do think that China gets portrayed unfairly negatively in western media sometime, but look at our society that thinks Nazis were cool because the Hitler or Mussolini edit some 14 yo did on Tiktok. People need reminders of the horrors of the past, not just the rosey state approved calls to a “period of former glory”
The discussion isn’t so much what has happened in the past, it’s much more the combination of continued denial and justification of inhumane crimes done in the past by the same regime.
Their continued denial and justification makes the current regime just as complicit in the crimes of their predecessors regardless of their material achievements.
Interesting comparison to Germany. As you may be aware, there was quite a significant change in government structure right around 1945. While yes - if new evidence from that period were to be released, it would indeed reflect poorly on Germany. But everyone would know it’s news from basically another country. Whereas in China nothing has changed when it comes to the structure of the nation. And they sure as hell did not go through a period of national mourning or apology to reflect on past mistakes.
Disagree on the last part but rest is pretty good.
For context: AfD is the most popular party today in Germany. Their leader Alice weidel publicly praises the time of her grandfather while her grandfather was a member of NAZI party. Another high ranking member of AfD was recently caught doing a zeig heil in front of parliment building. In early 2023, they were caught attending a neo-nazi meetup.
And despite all that, they are today number 1 in polls. This doesn’t look very “reflecting on past mistakes” tbh.
Well it’s been that long that they went full circle again. I guess my age is showing (I’m a geriatric millennial). Until a decade ago, or maybe two, a successful AfD would have been unthinkable. Just goes to show how far off OPs comparison with Germany is.
Nothing has changed? Jesus Christ I didn’t think someone could be so ignorant.
Still the same party in control, still the same way folks get selected for power. Not exactly comparable to a country losing a war, getting split in two, one adopting liberal democracy, the other a Soviet style communist system. And then later rejoining into a single country again.
I appreciate what youre trying to say, but please do not glaze West Germany or western liberal democracy lmao.
If you see history as a change in “ideas” and not in a change in the material conditions of a people well then, yeah, your incorrect perspective of progress is what you will end up with.
China has surpassed the west in all aspects of material improvement to their citizens. They are leading the world into a green energy revolution. They have built more solar energy production in the last year than the entire rest of world has built in all of history.
Acting like China is “the same” today as it was 30-40 years ago is just absolutely ignoring material reality.
It’s hard to have this conversation with someone that views the world through the “idea” of having freedoms. Instead of looking at things being part of society that actually cause one to have freedom. Things like, healthcare, shelter, affordable food, transportation, education, etc.
If you judge China’s freedom by ones access to basic fundamental parts of a society that actually allow one to BE free. They have significantly more freedom than the average American does today.
Do I agree with their crackdowns on speech? No, especially now that they have solidified their position as a world superpower. I think it’s an unnecessary hold over from a time when they were in danger of outside influence meant to destroy their system of governance.
Having said that, they ARE heading in the right direction when it comes to free speech. The west is currently heading in the wrong direction with speech. America and Britain are especially moving in the wrong direction as they opress anyone that criticizes, not just the countries leaders, but even the leaders of a foreign country like Israel.
You saying China is “the same” as it was 30-40 years ago. Is just cope.
I really wish the people in the west would learn from China’s success. Unite in improving the material conditions of both nations and all nations. But for some reason there is just blind hostility towards a country that has done nothing but trade peacefully with us for most of its history.
I’m not sure how this is “anti-China”? it’s historical footage, it seems worthy of news to me
And why compare with events that are 80+ years old ? you’re talking about it like concentration camps and Tienanmen are the same
You’re debating a tankie, so rhetorical fact-based argument is not going to yield positive results.
It’s not anti China on its face. But the timing and context are, as well as the comments here. No, one here is watching the video even. They’re just jumping to a conclusion they already had that makes them feel good about their shit hole western country by comparison.
We are being lead by war hawks that want to escalate a cold war with China. You’re going to see more and more “leaked” information on China framing them as different and incompatible with “the West”. That’s all this is. That’s why it’s on “World News” and not a history sub discussing it in a meaningful way.
Seriously, go read the comments here and tell me how many are actually analyzing this in a historical context. It’s just garbage talking about how China is bad and is still bad today. Half the comments replying to me are just “.ml/tankie bad”. The same people that have been saying “China is going to collapse in X days” for the last 5 years.
No,[sic] one here is watching the video even.
You mean the six hour video that I’m assuming is in Mandarin? How about you tell us all about it since certainly you watched it, right? Right?
That’s literally my point. My comment is in frustration to all the comments just using this article to uphold an incorrect world view of China as some authoritarian state that ships innocent people to foreign prisons for torture (shit, sorry, that’s the US).
I never said I watched it. But literally no one here has. Or, honestly, even read the article. It’s just being used for the purpose of cold war agit-prop.
Do… Do you expect people to watch a six hour video in a language they don’t speak?
ah, sure, I get how this is information warfare. But it’s honestly pretty mild and I think on its own it presents more historical interest than confirmation bias. I do appreciate however how these things are meant to pile up and slowly manufacture consent.
tbh I haven’t read once a prediction about China collapsing soon, maybe I haven’t been looking in the right places. But anyone paying attention should be able to tell the opposite is happening
and to be entirely honest I stopped short at reading the article… given that the audience recording is apparently 6 hours long
Well, that’s a mature response. My initial comment was mostly not really appropriate to this article in a vacuum; out of the context of the rest of the “World News” post that have been just a constant stream of cold war agit-prop against China. It’s why it just bothers me.
Nothing is being posted to learn from China’s success. It’s not even being posted to learn from their failures. It’s just being posted to manufacture consent as you said. That’s where my frustration comes from. It’s just western people eating up slop as we pay higher rents for everything in life. And accept that bombing brown kids and starting wars for oil are just part of our life.
You know it’s a good article when a dumb tankie is seething in the comments
If you listen carefully you can hear the entire .ml instance buffering while they wait on marching orders to spin this
Wheezing even
Poor Wheezy
Rare footage of chinese General’s dissent being open and available is very interesting news, at least to me.
Maybe you should unsubscribe from worldnews and subscribe to USAnews (or rather please make that community and not annoy us with USA garbage deluge).
In many ways, you’re mostly criticizing as if this was a malicious attempt to hide current USA events and further USA foreign policy narratives. Not really seeing any USA in the article. And the factual happenings are interesting.
I more just hitting a breaking point of being tired of cold war agit-prop with China. No one is watching a 6 hour long video or talking about the historical context here. They’re just getting fed “China Bad” so America can justify more wars for oil.
I thought this was a pro China story.
